TheRealTimeWeb.com: My Email To An iPad User

My Email To An iPad User

Posted by Stefan Richter in Flash Player, iOS | 16 Comments

As some of you know, I offer a hosted collaboration tool called Scribblar which I built using some of my favourite technologies, namely Flex and FMS. Today I sent out a newsletter announcing a new feature and I received the following email from one of my users:
"Greetings. I was hoping to use Scribblar to serve as a communication tool between two ipads. However, scribblar uses flash and ipads only use java. Is there a way around this?"

I replied as follows:

--------------------
Hi,
Unfortunately Apple's iDevices do not support Flash or Java or indeed any third party browser plug-ins. This is a purposely implemented limitation on Apple's part and I suggest you contact them, express your disappointment and request support for Flash and other well established browser plug-ins. We here at Scribblar - which is essentially a one man team - build web applications using Flash as a primary platform and have not got the resources to develop a completely separate version solely to accommodate a sub-section of Apple hardware. As you probably know, a 'normal' Apple Mac desktop machine or laptop runs Flash just fine, in fact Scribblar was built on a Mac and I'm writing this email on a Mac. My assumption is that Apple has limited support for third party runtimes on its iDevices based simply on business reasons as it gives users less choice about the apps and games they can use and consume, and encourages more purchases via the app Store instead. But that's just my personal guess.

Later this year there are a wide variety of tablet devices to be released which run on more open operating systems which fully support Flash as well as other established web technologies in addition to those supported by Apple.

Sorry not to be able to help any further on this occasion.
--------------------

I'm not going to beat a dead horse any further here but isn't this a really sad state of affairs? I cannot help but feel that Apple is forcing the web back a few steps and it's not just the Scribblar user that's being left slightly disappointed here, it's also the Apple user. The undiluted web experience? Not quite. Instead this is a game in which everyone loses.
I'm just glad that you have choices *before* you buy an iDevice, but the email above also demonstrates that not all users are aware about what exactly these devices can and cannot do - this user thought his iPad could run Java, and likely also thought it would run Flash until he tried a few sites. It's left to me, the Flash developer, to educate him. In the future I should CC Apple support on such communications...

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Posted on September 3, 2010 at 10:15 PM. 3342 views. 16 comments. Print

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#1 by Steve H on 9/3/10 - 8:50 PM

No sense telling Apple. They know exactly what they are doing and don't give a stuff who they annoy or inconvenience. Not while they are still raking in obscene amounts of cash from people who are happy to be controlled.
#2 by Stefan Richter on 9/3/10 - 9:12 PM

Fair point, but not listening to their customers may be something they could one day regret. For now it seems that greed has taken over, and we know where that has gotten us in the past...
#3 by MatthewFabb on 9/3/10 - 10:12 PM

Go to the official Apple support page and do a search for Flash and there's a countless number of threads, with customers constantly asking how to install Flash on the iPad. The average consumer does not understand why this limitation is there and so I don't think Apple is suffering for it. This is a big advantage that any of the competing tablets can take advantage of by advertising this fact. Motorola recently launched an add that their phone has Flash and I imagine others will follow suit when it comes to tablets. Apple will then feel a lot more pressure from customers when there's other options. Whether they will do anything about it at that point, I don't know.
#4 by Aaron on 9/4/10 - 2:19 AM

I've been hearing a lot about tablets and ipads lately. There are so many to choose from, but they are also very expensive. You sound like you might know a lot about tablets, so maybe you can help me out. Why should I spend a lot of money buying a tablet from Apple, when instead I could just reach into my toilet bowl and grab something hand-held that's just as shitty, but at a very small fraction of the cost?
#5 by David Falls on 9/4/10 - 4:59 AM

@Aaron, have you ever used an iPad? It is hardly a piece of crap. Don't denigrate me for having one either. I have 30 years of experience with computers and have programed for myself in multiple computer languages ranging from Assemby to .Net languages. I have built numerous machines. The tablet is the evolution of computers. Apple led the transition from command line to mouse. It is leading from desktop/laptop mouse/keyboard to tablet/touchscreen. The product works well. It has awesome battery life. The instant on nature makes it very convenient to use. It's tablet form factor makes it easy to keep on hand. The screen size strike a nice balance between too big to carry and too small to use. It is not a perfect machine either. My gripes are the usual. Flash is not one of the big ones though. My largest gripe is that there is no common data space. Each app has it's own data space. This is my main issue. Here is what I want. If someone delivers the tablet I describe, I will buy it.
1 - same form factor as the iPad - or close
2 - same or better battery life as the iPad
3 - tablet optimized version of Win 7 - the interface has to match the iPad for effectiveness.
4 - user expandable memory
5 - user expandable storage via USB and SD card
6 - instant on like the iPad.

Basically, we need an interface for Win 7 that intercepts ui calls and reinterprets them for a touchscreen OR the touch interface defines a multi touch gesture to mimic mouse clicks. Ie: to operate a scrollbar touch the arrow in the scrollbar and use another finger to double tap and hold down on the second tap. I prefer the first method.

I don't like Apple being so closed either. Still, I am waiting for someone to come out with a tablet that is superior to the iPad. It is not out yet. Everyone was simply caught by surprise by the iPad. I am doing 90% of what I need to do on a computer - on the iPad.

So.....manufacturers ....I am waiting.
#6 by mattjpoole on 9/4/10 - 10:09 AM

@stefan nice post, though I think some have interpreted this as iPad hate. It certainly is a impressive piece of kit.

I don't suppose there are many ipoodles coding on their tablets. I can't see an end to laptops for anything that requires more than a few chars being typed. So I really can't see any reason to get ANY tablet if you already own a laptop, which does everything a tab does, plus all the productivity/work related tasks that we all need to do.

iPad is simply consumerism in a shiny box. We don't need them.

My phone IS my tablet, and its not to small to put to my ear either (and I can expect someone to answer too)
#7 by David Falls on 9/4/10 - 4:21 PM

I don't see a huge amount of creation occurring on the iPad due to the way it is locked down. BUT... Imagine!

A tablet not locked down with a UI as well thought out as the ipad's. Imagine a tablet with the strengths of the iPad, and imagine that the weaknesses have been addressed. This tablet IS coming. Sooner or later, it WILL arrive. As far as why would you want a tablet rather than a laptop.......Battery life, convenience of instant on, convenience of portability and handling in tight quarters. The keyboard issue is a nonissue.....even on iPad one can hook up a keyboard. Make no mistake, the tablet will replace the laptop and will ultimately vastly shrink the desktop market as well. The iPad has it's faults.....mostly needless faults that a software update would remedy if Jobs allowed it. However, it is only the first successful tablet. Instead of being like the guys that won't move beyond the command line, embrace this transformational form factor and endeavor to sway it in the direction that you wish to see it go.

Imagine: carrying your entire code repository in your hand along with your development tools. Imagine sitting down at a desk with a 27 inch monitor, sound system, and keyboard. They connect to the tablet wirelessly. The tablet's screen becomes your mouse. This scenario is doable now!! Demand it, clamor for it, beat on the doors. If the demand is there......it will be created......and run Flash too.
#8 by GaB on 9/7/10 - 7:17 AM

I think is enough alternatives to iPad out there, so, why don't just leave the thing alone and leave Apple?
You don't like diet coke?, I bet you don't drink it, so you don't like Apple? don't spend your money on them just to be cool
#9 by - b on 9/7/10 - 10:23 PM

Google "jailbreak" and "frash"

If you want it bad enough...
#10 by David on 9/7/10 - 10:44 PM

No, there is no real alternative out there that meets my spec. I am not going from the best currently available to something that gives me a bit more of what I want on one hand, but gives me a bit less on the other.

I know about jail breaking. I just may go that route. The reason I haven't yet is the same reason that one I got a hackintosh running, I let it go. It is a pain in the rear. Part of what I want ultimately is a machine where the manufacturer is an advocate of ALL it's users. So yes, I will likely eventually move from Ipad - once what I want becomes available.
#11 by GaB on 9/8/10 - 3:12 AM

eventually?

https://thejoojoo.com

http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/05/fusion-garage-j...
#12 by David on 9/8/10 - 3:30 AM

The joojoo is browser only. While it may do flash, that is the only thing it has on iPad. Unless I am missing something, I don't see the joojoo going anywhere at all.
#13 by Justin on 9/17/10 - 9:00 PM

Stefan,

Five months ago, Steve Jobs made it very clear why Flash isn't supported on iOS devices:

http://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughts-on-flash/

He even specifically addresses your assumed reasons for why Flash isn't supported (spoiler: he says your assumed reason is false).

A few other thoughts...

1. Support for leading edge HTML, CSS, and JavaScript while not supporting flash is hardly "forcing the web back a few steps".

2. Do you know of any phone, hand held, or tablet device that runs Flash well? I don't. I've been hearing these devices are "coming soon" for a long time. This suggests getting Flash to perform well on these kinds of devices is hard to do, and Apple just didn't want to wait.

3. Your implication is that Apple isn't listening to users, but judging by sales numbers, the opposite appears to be true. The Best Buy CEO says the iPad has eaten up as much as half of laptop PC market demand. This suggests the iPad is exactly what a lot of people are looking for. In deciding what was the best product, Apple determined Flash wasn't necessary. Consumers seem to agree.
#14 by Stefan Richter on 9/17/10 - 9:34 PM

Hi Justin,

1. 'leading' HTML, CSS and JS? Are you serious? If it's so leading why don't we see any decent apps built with it? I see you yourself use Flash, ActionScript and Flash video on the sites you build - what's wrong with HTML, CSS and JS? Is Theora not cutting it?

2. Yes, I'm holding it in my hand. It's called a Nexus One.

3. If BestBuy was the be all and end all then you may be right, but if Apple wasn't feeling the pressure from Android big time then they would not have made a huge u-turn on banning and then allowing third party development tools for iOS. Through the backdoor they are now allowing cross-compiled Flash files, which I think is great and I will be building AS3 based apps for iOS again.

Did you read the article you linked to to the end? Then I guess you saw the sixth and 'most important' reason.

"We know from painful experience that letting a third party layer of software come between the platform and the developer ultimately results in sub-standard apps and hinders the enhancement and progress of the platform. "
Funny how quickly even Apple's priorities can change when market pressures increase. Suddenly a third party layer is totally fine again. I guess it wasn't that bad to begin with to be honest...

Maybe they have realised that great apps can be written in any language, including AS3 and Flash, and bad apps can also be written in any language, including Objective-C. Just look at the App Store today to see prove of that.

I'm glad to see Apple relax a little, although they have by no means gone far enough. This whole App Store business is just a fad, eventually it'll all trickle back to the real web. Walled gardens don't seem have a long lifespan.
#15 by Justin on 9/17/10 - 11:31 PM

Stefan,

Let's clarify the two ways Apple restricted Flash:

1. No Flash plug-in (or any other third party plugin) allowed in the browser.

2. No compiling AS3 code (or any other code) into native Objective-C apps.

I think we agree on item 2. It seemed severely heavy handed, and I'm happy they've back tracked on that point.

It's item 1 that we seem to disagree about. I would also venture to say that our main point of disagreement is identifying the victim of that policy. Seems like you think everyone loses (users, publishers, developers, etc). I think the only losers are Adobe and Flash developers. By and large, users don't seem to mind, and content publishers have adapted.

Speaking of adapting, here are decent apps/sites built with HTML/CSS/JavaScript:

http://www.apple.com/webapps/
http://www.apple.com/ipad/ready-for-ipad/
http://www.google.com/mobile/

My portfolio does contain a decent amount of Flash projects; however, I haven't updated my portfolio in a long time. In the last 18 months, the only use I've had for Flash is as a video player fallback solution for browsers that don't support HTML5 video.
#16 by Stefan Richter on 9/18/10 - 10:08 AM

I think everyone loses out. Apple restricts choice and Flash support is actually part of the HTML5 specs through the embed tag - so the only one NOT supporting HTML5 properly is actually Apple... As you can see from my post, Apple's customers do not understand what they are buying into.

And as far as those examples go, you realise that Apple's demos only work properly in Safari. How's that an advancement?

As far as Flash video fallback goes I think that further underlines my point that HTML5 is simply not (yet) up for the job even for simple video playback. All it does right now is double the workload for a developer and content owner.

I'll take HTML5 seriously once its penetration is there. However I can never see it do away with the need for browser plugins, it just does not and can not move quickly enough.