TheRealTimeWeb.com: Really Nice H.264 Flash Video Demo

Really Nice H.264 Flash Video Demo

Posted by Stefan Richter in Videos & Players | 22 Comments

Fabio has posted a very nice H.264 video on his blog which he encoded using the free FFMPEG tool. This file played absolutely smoothly on my standard, consumer grade ADSL line and while I am not sure about the encoding bitrate used here I would like to point out that the video looks tons better than the so called Digital TV signal that Sky is pushing down on me. And Fabio's demo was running at 1600x1200 on my screen.

This year will be an awesome one for Flash video. I hope some clever developer will add some interactivity and community tools to this sort of viewing experience. Whoever said that Tv was dead was dead right. Hey, that gives me an idea...

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Posted on January 7, 2008 at 10:52 AM. 23043 views. 22 comments. Print

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#1 by Emanuele Cipolloni on 1/7/08 - 10:54 AM

Tested on a Sony VAIO AR21S at 1920 x 1200 res and it does a lot of frame skipping even with the latest and greatest Flash Player (with hardscare scaling, can't imagine the software one). Even if Sky channels have inferior resolutions, they allow me to watch the entire movie rather than pieces of it. If you want to enjoy full HD res even on Sky, then you can upgrade to SKY HD. Also, a lot of people into Flash Video believe that H.264 is just another format and didn't realize yet that it is riddled with problems, like having to pay for the pleasure of encoding in its format or paying just to host an encoded stream on a server (remember the GIF stuff with UNISYS years ago???), so I really hope your friend has paid his duty before allowing this demo to float around.
#2 by Blue Loo on 1/7/08 - 11:35 AM

Emanuele, have you really read their licensing scheme? Probably you should and edit your comment then.
#3 by Stefan on 1/7/08 - 11:43 AM

I agree, you should inform yourself before posting. The MPEGLA licensing is quite clear and does not require Fabio to pay anything.
But enlighten us: what problems is Flash video 'riddled' with and who are the 'lot of people' you are referring to?

Lastly, this was not a post on HD but on H.264. I am aware that I can upgrade to Sky HD should I wish to do so. I saw Fabio's entire movie and I am sorry to hear that you couldn't.
#4 by Tino Klumpen on 1/7/08 - 1:15 PM

The movie from Fabio is mp4 file with the H.264 codec. 1024 x 576 pixels @ 25fps and playing at a bitrate of 1.2 Mbit. It's 4 minutes of footage and the file is 35Mb. Nice encoded!
#5 by Karl on 1/7/08 - 1:21 PM

While the video itself was quite beautiful in quality, it stopped frequently. I am on 6Mbps broadband cable. Still hoping this becomes a reality someday soon though.
#6 by Stefan on 1/7/08 - 1:30 PM

@Karl: I think this could simply be a connection bottleneck somewhere, I am sure Fabio is serving this from a standard webserver which in turn will quickly break a sweat when multiple users request the same file at once.
Either that or your 6MBPS line doesn't actually deliver 6Mbps, which is often the case (at least for me where its supposedly 8Mbps...).
#7 by Fabio Sonnati on 1/7/08 - 1:56 PM

I serve the video from a standard webserver in hosting, sorry for the bandwidth issue. Indeed I think H.264 is really wonderfull and widely underused today. I'm preparing a showcase with HD video (720p) @1.3Mbit/s and Full HD video (1080p) @2Mbit/s.
I'll post it when finished. Bye.
#8 by Emanuele Cipolloni on 1/7/08 - 3:47 PM

I actually read the MPEGLA license and actually paid fees for integrating codecs into several products, so I'm very well aware of what I'm talking about (which is different from just relying on what Adobe says with press releases). Quite a few people covered this before like http://mediadesigner.digitalmedianet.com/articles/... so while you don't have to pay license fees for the codec itself (being paid by Adobe) you have to do it if you plan to release streams for public fruition. Also, Tinic pointed out that Adobe will *NOT* support streaming to Flash clients if you're not using their FMS, which is a huge vendor lockin if you ask anybody in the industry. Check it at http://www.kaourantin.net/archive/2007_08_01_flash... In the same article you can read that several pieces of the H.264 are left out from current player, so it is a kind of *bastardized* implementation of the protocol.
#9 by Stefan on 1/7/08 - 5:07 PM

sorry but your wrong, you do not have to pay license fees just because you make a video public that's H.264 encoded.
As far as the 'bastardized implementation of the protocol' goes - are you talking about RTMP, Adobe's own proprietary protocol? Or did you confuse codecs with prototols?
Anyway, I have no doubt that other vendors will offer H.264 streaming to the Flash Player very soon and the implemented H.264 profiles are more than adequate for 99% of use cases.
#10 by Emanuele Cipolloni on 1/7/08 - 5:43 PM

You should read Tinic Uro (main Flash Player engineer) comments to understand:

"I am not in a position able to explain to you why we will not allow 3rd party streaming servers to stream H.264 video or AAC audio into the Flash Player. What I can tell you is that we do not allow this without proper licensing. Refer to Adobe's friendly Flash Media Server sales staff for more information." So they will legally fight if anybody else provides solutions as you suggest.

As for the *bastardized* protocol (or better *incomplete*) I was clearly referring to the codec:
"Video needs to be in H.264 format only. MPEG-4 Part 2 (Xvid, DivX etc.) video is not supported, H.263 video is not supported, Sorenson Video is not supported. Keep in mind that a lot of pod casts are still using MPEG-4 Part 2. So do not be surprised if you do not see any video. We should be close to 100% compliant to the H.264 standard, all Base, Main, High and High 10 bit streams should play. Extended, High 4:2:2 and High 4:4:4 profiles are not officially supported at this time."
#11 by Stefan on 1/7/08 - 7:44 PM

what you don't understand is that you're mistaken. I am not sure if you have spoken to the FMS product team including the product manager but I have. Adobe would be shooting itself in the foot if the 'legally fight anyone'. They have no such plans, and if you'd care to ask Tinic he'd tell you the same.
Ok so the Player team have not implemented every H.264 profile under the sun... we must be careful when playing some podcasts with FMS3... happens really often too.

You are clearly set out to nitpick a positive effort and product. Did you read the quote you posted in full by the way: 'We should be close to 100% compliant to the H.264 standard, all Base, Main, High and High 10 bit streams should play.'

Not happy with that? Fine, there's always Silverlight I guess. Great for collaboration and webcam streams in particular...
#12 by Emanuele Cipolloni on 1/7/08 - 9:12 PM

"what you don't understand is that you're mistaken."

This is a great line. I'm not nitpicking anything, believe what you want, honestly I don't care. Flash is certainly a good product, but what really amaze me is that nobody is allowed to criticize it for any reason.

Anyway, good luck and keep on dreaming.
#13 by Stefan on 1/7/08 - 10:14 PM

criticism welcome if it's constructive. Criticism for the sake of it? Not on my turf, you can do that on your own blog if you like.
#14 by dascope on 1/9/08 - 10:44 AM

Hi, I'm wondering why Fabio renamed the .mp4 to .jpg.. Any ideas?

Anyways, the quality is awesome - wish there was a full screen button in the demo!
#15 by Stefan on 1/9/08 - 11:01 AM

right click to go full screen!
#16 by lg on 1/12/08 - 7:05 PM

Can anyone post the ffmpeg command line used to encode video like this?
#17 by JBOY on 1/18/08 - 5:01 PM

Maybe this will do some magic :)

http://ffmpeg.mplayerhq.hu/faq.html#SEC20
#18 by james on 1/20/08 - 2:57 AM

Hi Fabio,

Came across your player today and wanted to know what piece of software your using to encode your videos?

The look great and we have experienced some frame skipping at fullscreen with ours and thought it might be the software we are using.

All help is appreciated and keep up the good work.

James
#19 by reseres on 1/23/08 - 2:32 PM

Maybe this helps concerning the licence discussion: http://www.img.lx.it.pt/~fp/artigos/H264_final.pdf... - page 25

@ Fabio
What cam-system and raw video specifications (before rendering) have been used? Or have you "muxed out" the h.264 main/baseline from a very low quality raw material?

Without technical background this here is quiet useless for us...
Thanks!
#20 by Berkay DAVER on 1/28/08 - 5:59 AM

Video instantly started and ran smoothly at 4Mbps adsl from turkey. I wonder if anyone know that ffmpeg capable of what qt-faststart does ? If yes, then what's the parameter for it ?
#21 by Jerome on 2/22/08 - 9:24 PM

A tutorial on how do install encoder and libraries for h264 coding in flash would be very usefull to the world.
#22 by Charles on 9/25/08 - 1:42 AM

Hey Fabio, mind posting a source code for the player for the download? thanks!