TheRealTimeWeb.com: On2 adds H.264 Support to Flix

On2 adds H.264 Support to Flix - a Sign of Things to Come?

Posted by Stefan Richter in Tools | 18 Comments

On2, the company behind the VP6 video codec in Flash, recently announced that it will be adding H.264 support to its Flix product line. Big deal I hear you say, H.264 is a well known and high quality codec - it's also known as MPEG4 which is what my Apple TV digests.
Correct, but Flix is - or at least has been - a Flash video encoding tool. It hasn't really served any other pupose than dealing with FLV in some shape or form, be it encoding to FLV or transcoding to something like .3gp from FLV. So why add H.264 to the mix now? It's not a format that Flash supports, or shall I say yet?
Of course I am wildly speculating here but if H.264 support does not and will not have any relation to Flash video then why add this support to Flix? Why not create a new product, like Flox or Flax?
Of course my wish would be that I'm correct here and that On2 knows more than you and I and that they are planning ahead, maybe for the next codec update in Flash. And what a great choice H.264 would be!
Thoughts on a postcard, or in the comments if you prefer.

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Posted on August 15, 2007 at 10:47 PM. 9580 views. 18 comments. Print

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#1 by John on 8/15/07 - 10:03 PM

I would like to think Flash would go with H.264 since it would open up the encoder world quite a bit and make it much more likely that there would be free server-side and live encoders. But I think if adobe was replacing On2's codec that On2 wouldn't be first to know.
#2 by Alex on 8/15/07 - 10:17 PM

Screw On2. They have ridden the Flash boat for long enough now!

H.264 + Flash + Hardware acceleration = dreams!!
#3 by Stefan on 8/15/07 - 10:42 PM

they would not really replace On2 anyway as VP6 is going to stay within the Flash Player for backward compatibility. But they'd certainly lose codec share across the platform, another reason for On2 to become 'hot' with H.264.
#4 by guya on 8/16/07 - 12:21 AM

Sounds logical, Adobe have to be prepared for Microsoft's Silverlight which support non proprietary codecs. Let's just hope Nellymoser will be the first to go.
#5 by jhm212 on 8/16/07 - 12:47 AM

I enjoy your blog, I'm always intrigued by comments from the "guru's". While 264 is obviously a quality codec, are there draw backs if it were to be applied to the 'Flash Platform'?
Stefan, here's a few questions, what do you think.....
1) H.264 file sizes are 3-5 times larger than current F8/9 video files using VP6. How would this affect the 'no buffer' streaming that Flash video now enjoys? What about 264 HD streaming or live applications? Are you aware of current applications you can point to?
2) MPEGLA charges 10 cents per decoder, VIA, 25 cents per decoder. Ted Patrick's counter is at about 2.4B 'Flash 9 Installs' or it's estimated to reside on about 700M plus computers....who pays the licensing fees, Adobe, the user, the developer or a combination?
3) The biggest advantage to the Flash Platform is it's 'everytime, everywhere' ubiquity. Royalties to MPEGLA and VIA permit use of 264, but someone must develop, manage and support the codec's 'ubiquitous' implementation. Does Adobe want to take that on?
Regards!
#6 by Stefan on 8/16/07 - 8:14 AM

@jhm212, let me have a stab at that:
1) I'm not sure if that's actually the case, at least I have not seen such an increase in size in my tests. Also the 'no buffer' setup is a myth, of course Flash buffers but we can dynamically change the buffer on the fly for quick startup, then smooth playback. FLV is no different to any other format in that it contains a lot of data which needs to be managed somehow.
As for HD, Flash Player now supports hardware scaling and HD content so you can do that already. Flash Media Server is the platform to deliver it on. The only difference with H.264 would be that the FLV contains a new codec.
2) I'm sure Adobe would cut a nice deal when it comes to licensing fees. Of course it would be Adobe and ultimately their customers who foot the bill. But then that's the case for On2 codec licensing too.
Other lareg enterprises have implemented H.264, I don;t see any reason why Adobe wouldn't be able to do the same.
3) not sure what you mean. Any new codec would be added to the Flash Player and pushed out through the usual channels. Implementation would be handled by the Flash Player team.

Also note that Flash Media Server could serve new codecs without requiring any updates as it is not interested in the codecs contained within the FLV and will serve them regardless. It's the Player that would require an update.
#7 by durech on 8/16/07 - 1:00 PM

The market leader youtube has chosen H.264 month ago. What's first, the Apollo Runtime AIR or the new Flash Player?
#8 by Stefan on 8/16/07 - 1:39 PM

it's chosen it for Apple TV though not for its site. Quite a difference.
AIR should be out before any Player 10 would hit the streets byt point upgrades are being released in quick succession.
#9 by JT on 8/16/07 - 1:40 PM

"On2 will be positioned as a single source for all the leading advanced video compression schemes."

On2 wants to become the "One stop shop" for video encoding solutions. I believe this move has more to do with their acquisition of Hantro than it does Flash. IMO this isn't Flash related news at all. Also hearing that VP8 isn't far out. It should spank H.264 pretty handily.
#10 by Owen van Dijk on 8/17/07 - 3:06 PM

I'd guess H.264 in FP 10 hell yeah :)
#11 by Steve on 8/18/07 - 3:48 AM

I agree with JT. I think it's more about On2 expanding it's capabilities outside of Flash than anything else. I do see Flash integrating VP7 in the near future, though. It has all the advantages of H.264 (hardware scaling, etc) and better quality/lower filesize to boot. Check out ABC.com's HD Theater which uses Move Network's proprietary player. Do a little research and you'll find it uses VP7. It's good stuff.

On a side note, buy your On2 stock now while it's still affordable. Ticker symbol ONT.
#12 by Flo on 8/21/07 - 8:21 AM

Hey Stefan,

you are right. Now the Flash Player supports H.264 Video!!

Lock in on the zdnet Blog
http://blogs.zdnet.com/Stewart/?p=501
#13 by JT on 8/21/07 - 1:25 PM

Steve, better sell that On2 stock!
#14 by Steve on 8/21/07 - 4:46 PM

Doh! I stand corrected.

On2 is still a good investment. Flash's inclusion of H264 opens up new ubiquity between web video and broadcast TV (esp HD) and On2 is positioned very well to continue leading the market with encoding and braodcast solutions. This opens up new doors for us (we broadcast our TV stationss live on the web and archive much of our content online) Very soon, we could be encoding once for both medium. On2 will likely be a part of the equation for us and companies in a similar situation.
(ONT sure took a nose dive today! Time to buy some more!)
#15 by Bill on 9/8/07 - 12:30 AM

Who told that vp7 is better in quality terms. It's simply not true.
Check doom9 forum for some test. You will find that vp7 is inferior to 2007/2008 optimizied H.264 codecs like Mainconcept, x264 and Nero.
#16 by kyle on 4/15/08 - 11:18 PM

Pleae help. What software can I use to encode avi to flv using h.264 codec?
#17 by anonymous on 5/24/08 - 8:22 AM

I'm a little surprised to find such a comment as:
"H.264 is a well known and high quality codec - it's also known as MPEG4"

on a site calling itself FlashCompGuru. mp4 and h.264 in no way the same thing.
#18 by Dileep Kumar Chaurasia on 5/17/10 - 8:47 AM

Hi

i am playing advertisement video with another video(movies).i am streaming video(movies)

using FMS and advertisement video using HTTP protocol . i pause running video and play

advertisement video at specified position .but i am facing one problem . problem is here.
whenever advertisement video play then running video is paused . playhead for running video

is moved more than specified position but advertisement video play fine.

For Example:- when i am playing advertisement video at 30 seconds .then running video pause at

30 seconds and playhead should be at 30 seconds until advertisement video is completed but

playhead is moved more 30 seconds.

so please tell me about "why is this happening " and " what am i doing wrong"

Thanks in advance