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• #1 by TheDingo on 8/9/05 - 4:00 PM

  

  What encoders did you use to create these videos?
  ...Also what settings ?
  
  I'm assuming that 2-pass VBR was used for the Spark video.

• #2 by Stefan on 8/9/05 - 4:07 PM

  

  Can't comment on type of software used.
  Both videos are encoded with identical settings, 1 pass because that's the only option that this particular piece of software offered.

• #3 by TheDingo on 8/9/05 - 4:13 PM

  

  To be fair to the Spark CODEC you should use the Sorenson Squeeze 4.1 encoder and use the 2-pass VBR option. There is a HUGE difference when a proper encoder is used.
  
  Sorenson Squeeze 4.1 Encoder
  http://www.sorensonstore.com/products/sq4mfwin.htm...
  
  ...Still the wavelet compression used in the VP6 CODEC is quite amazing, especially for fast moving images.
  ( looks very simillar to the MS WMV9 CODEC )

• #4 by Stefan on 8/9/05 - 4:23 PM

  

  yeah it's not the fact that I don't have a copy of Squeeze 4.1. The demo uses the exact same settings for 2 different codecs. If I used 2pass VBR for Spark and CBR for VP6 then someone else would moan :-)

• #5 by TheDingo on 8/9/05 - 4:32 PM

  

  ...But I supsect that the On2 encoder technology is very likely doing 2-pass under the hood. This is why I think it's a lousy test to compare them like this.
  
  A better test in my opinion is to show the best that the Spark Pro CODEC can do at the same data rate, against the best that the VP6 CODEC can do, otherwise you people a false impression that the Spark Pro CODEC is far worse than it really is, which I consider to be dirty pool.
  
  ...I've seen the same thing in the past when comparing the Sorenson 3 Pro CODEC against MPEG4. In the right hands, with the right tools, the Sorenson 3 Pro CODEC can look just as good as MPEG4 at the same data rate.
  
  The Dingo

• #6 by Stefan on 8/9/05 - 4:55 PM

  

  agreed, I could squeeze (no pun intended) more out of Spark. However I can say that this Pulp Fiction video is not using 2pass encoding. Not under the hood or anywhere else, both clips used 1 pass CBR. Lousy test you say? I can live with that.
  Check the first post in this series, the Heineken clips use 2pass for both spark and VP6 - with that some people didn't like the fact that VP6 ended up with a larger file and wanted a 'same target size' exercise. Well here it is, same file size for both.
  What you now suggest is a test that draws its results from a comparison by the naked eye and mucking about with all sorts of tools - and I am sure as soon as I'd post such a test we'd see voices demanding a different methodology yet again. I never claimed for this to be scientific nor do I want to stop anyone using Spark. But if someone just wants to hit encode then this is what they get.

• #7 by Philippe on 8/9/05 - 5:12 PM

  

  Is it be related:
  with F7 Spark, if you compress using a fixed quality setting (say 80) instead of a fixed bitrate you get a much better video quality (i.e. without the "pixel" look) and often smaller filesize.

• #8 by MySchizoBuddy on 8/10/05 - 8:15 AM

  

  Stefan what tool did you use to encode vp6. so far flix 8 pro which ins't released yet has vp6 encoding. I want to try out VP6 for the movie i want to put on my site. So far I'm using Sorenson.
  
  Also Stefan don't worry about the comments. people whine excessively anyway. there will always be someone who won't be happy with the effort you put into it.
  
  Thanks. I appreciate it

• #9 by Stefan on 8/10/05 - 8:24 AM

  

  sorry but I cannot comment on the type of software used. I think Flash8 Pro which has been announced on monday will support VP6 encoding too.
  thanks for the encouragement.

• #10 by MySchizoBuddy on 8/10/05 - 8:51 AM

  

  NO problem. :)
  one more question I'm hearing that Flash player 8 won't have realtime VP6 encoding only decoding. the encoder will be part of flash communication server
  I read that here
  http://flashvideo.progettosinergia.com/

• #11 by MySchizoBuddy on 8/10/05 - 8:52 AM

  

  ups sorry i miss read it. flash Ide will have the encoder build in. but flash player 8 won't have real time encoding. I dunno what that means

• #12 by Stefan on 8/10/05 - 9:04 AM

  

  I think that means that the Flash 8 Player can only use Sprak for encoding, not VP6. I guess it may also mean that Flashcom will be able to serve VP6 video but only for pre-recorded footage, not live streams. Therefore video conferencing using Flashcom will be unaffected by the new codec.